Annette Claire Baier University of Otago
Contact
  • No contact info.

Affiliations
  • Faculty, University of Otago

Areas of specialization
  • None specified

Areas of interest

blank
About me
Not much to say..
My works
100 items found.
Sort by:
  1. Annette Baier (2013). Hume's Place in the History of Ethics. In Roger Crisp (ed.), The Oxford Handbook of the History of Ethics. Oxford University Press. 399.
    Direct download  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  2. A. C. Baier (2012). Meaning in Life and Why It Matters, by Susan Wolf, with an Introduction by Stephen Macedo, Comments by John Koethe, Robert M. Adams, Nomy Arpaly, and Jonathan Haidt, and Responses by Susan Wolf. Mind 120 (480):1330-1331.
    No categories
    Direct download (6 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  3. Annette C. Baier (2012). Hume's Damage Control. The Philosophers' Magazine 56 (56):87-89.
    We want to know about philosophers’ lives in part to see how they applied their philosophy to their own lives. Plato’s account of Socrates’ life, trial, and death sets a great example here, perhaps never equalled, just as few philosophers equal Socrates in integrity and courage.
    Direct download (4 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  4. Donald Ainsle, Margaret Atherton, Annette Baier, Don Baxter, Bill Beardsley, Martin Bell, Lorraine Besser-Jones, John Biro, Simon Blackburn & Charlotte Brown (2011). Hume Studies Referees, 2010–2011. Hume Studies 37 (2):297-298.
    Direct download  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  5. Annette Baier (2011). The Pursuits of Philosophy: An Introduction to the Life and Thought of David Hume. Harvard University Press.
    Childhood and youth: loss of faith and a passion for literature -- "At a distance from relations": writing his treatise in France -- Hume after the treatise -- Hume as librarian and historian -- Hume's life as a man in the public eye -- Hume's final years in Edinburgh -- Death and character.
    Direct download  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  6. Annette C. Baier (2011). Hume's Touchstone. Hume Studies 36 (1):51-60.
    At the end of part 3 of Book 1 of his Treatise,1 Hume had given a touchstone by which to judge any account of the human mind, namely that, where other animals appear to display the same cognitive operation that we do, our account applies as well to them as to us.2 He tests his own account of causal inference this way and finds that it comes through with flying colors, since the effects of experience of constant conjunctions on animal (...)
    Direct download (6 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  7. Kate Abramson, Donald Ainslie, Lilli Alanen, Annette Baier, Tom Beauchamp, Helen Beebee, Martin Bell, Christopher Berry, Lorraine Besser-Jones & John Biro (2010). Hume Studies Referees, 2009–2010. Hume Studies 36 (2):261-263.
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  8. A. C. Baier (2010). Hume's Morality: Feeling and Fabrication, by Rachel Cohon. [REVIEW] Mind 119 (474):462-468.
    (No abstract is available for this citation).
    Direct download (6 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  9. Annette Baier (2010). Kinds of Virtue Theorist : A Response to Christina Swanson. In Charles R. Pigden (ed.), Hume on Motivation and Virtue. Palgrave Macmillan.
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  10. Annette Baier (2010). Reflections On How We Live. OUP Oxford.
    The pioneering moral philosopher Annette Baier presents a series of new and recent essays in ethics, broadly conceived to include both engagements with other philosophers and personal meditations on life. Baier's unique voice and insight illuminate a wide range of topics. In the public sphere, she enquires into patriotism, what we owe future people, and what toleration we should have for killing. In the private sphere, she discusses honesty, self-knowledge, hope, sympathy, and self-trust, and offers personal reflections on faces, friendship, (...)
    Direct download  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  11. Annette Baier (2010). The Cautious Jealous Virtue: Hume on Justice and Other Virtues. Harvard University Press.
  12. Annette Baier (2010). The Cautious Jealous Virtue: Hume on Justice. Harvard University Press.
    The Cautious Jealous Virtue is an illuminating meditation that will interest not only Hume scholars but also those interested in the issues of justice and in ...
    Direct download  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  13. Annette C. Baier (2010). Is Empathy All We Need. Abstracta 6 (2):28-41.
    No categories
    Direct download (4 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  14. Annette Baier (2009). Acting in Character. In Constantine Sandis (ed.), New Essays on the Explanation of Action. Palgrave Macmillan.
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  15. Annette Baier (2009). Kinds of Virtue Theorist: A Response to Christine Swanton Annette Baier. In Charles R. Pigden (ed.), Hume on Motivation and Virtue: New Essays. Palgrave Macmillan. 249.
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  16. Annette C. Baier (2009). Hume's Skeptical Crisis. Hume Studies 35 (1/2):231-235.
  17. Annette C. Baier & Anik Waldow (2008). A Conversation Between Annette Baier and Anik Waldow About Hume's Account of Sympathy. Hume Studies 34 (1):61-87.
  18. Abraham Anderson, Margaret Atherton, Annette Baier, Tom Beauchamp, Helen Beebee, Martin Bell, Lorraine Besser-Jones, Richard Bett, Mark Box & Deborah Boyle (2007). Hume Studies Referees, 2006–2007. Hume Studies 33 (2):385-387.
    Direct download  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  19. Annette C. Baier (2007). Hume's Excellent Hypocrites. Rivista di Storia Della Filosofia 62 (3):267-286.
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  20. Annette C. Baier (2007). Trust, Suffering, and the Aesculapian Virtues. In Rebecca L. Walker & P. J. Ivanhoe (eds.), Working Virtue: Virtue Ethics and Contemporary Moral Problems. Oxford University Press. 136--153.
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  21. Annette C. Baier (2006). Hume's Deathbed Reading. Hume Studies 32 (2):347-356.
    Adam Smith’s famous account of Hume’s death, in his letter to Strahan, included a reference to what Hume had been reading shortly before his death, Lucian’s “Dialogues of the Dead.” But when one reads those, one becomes puzzled by Smith’s report that Hume had been trying out excuses to delay death, for no such scene occurs in those Lucian dialogues. Fortunately Smith’s was not the only letter written about exactly what Lucian dialogue Hume was reading.
    Direct download (5 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  22. Annette C. Baier (2006). Hume's Deathbed Reading: A Tale of Three Letters. Hume Studies 32 (2):347-356.
  23. Annette C. Baier (2006). How Wide Is Hume's Circle? Hume Studies 32 (1):113-117.
    Direct download (7 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  24. Annette Baier (2004). Demoralization, Trust, and the Virtues. In Cheshire Calhoun (ed.), Setting the Moral Compass: Essays by Women Philosophers. Oxford University Press. 176--190.
    No categories
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  25. Annette C. Baier (2004). Feelings That Matter. In Robert C. Solomon (ed.), Thinking About Feeling: Contemporary Philosophers on Emotions. Oxford University Press.
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  26. Annette Baier (2002). Moral Theorists. In Ruth F. Chadwick & Doris Schroeder (eds.), Applied Ethics: Critical Concepts in Philosophy. Routledge. 1--169.
    No categories
    Direct download  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  27. Annette Baier (2001). Book Review. The Cambridge Companion to Feminism in Philosophy Miranda Fricker Jennifer Hornsby. [REVIEW] Mind 110 (438):464-468.
  28. Annette C. Baier (2001). Hume, David (1711–1776). In Lawrence C. Becker & Charlotte B. Becker (eds.), Encyclopedia of Ethics. Routledge. 2--803.
  29. Annette Baier (1999). Responsibility and the Moral Sentiments. International Studies in Philosophy 31 (4):140-141.
    No categories
    Direct download (4 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  30. Annette Baier (1997). Doing Things with Others: The Mental Commons. In Lilli Alanen, Sara Heinämaa & Thomas Wallgren (eds.), Commonality and Particularity in Ethics. St. Martin's Press. 15--44.
    No categories
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  31. Annette C. Baier (1996). Barbara Herman., The Practice of Moral Judgments. International Studies in Philosophy 28 (2):139-140.
    No categories
    Direct download  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  32. Annette C. Baier (1996). The Vital but Dangerous Art of Ignoring: Selective Attention and Self-Deception. In Roger T. Ames & Wimal Dissanayake (eds.), Self and Deception: A Cross-Cultural Philosophical Enquiry. Albany: SUNY Press.
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  33. Annette Baier (1995). The Need for More Than Justice (1987). In Virginia Held (ed.), Justice and Care: Essential Readings in Feminist Ethics. Westview Press. 47.
    No categories
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  34. Annette C. Baier (1995). A Note on Justice, Care, and Immigration Policy. Hypatia 10 (2):150 - 152.
    Should a "caring" immigration policy give special treatment to would-be immigrants who are near neighbors? It is argued that, while those on our borders requesting entry have some special claim, it should not drown out the claims of more distant applicants for citizenship.
    Direct download (5 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  35. Annette C. Baier (1995). Response to Dancy. Philosophical Books 36 (4):243-245.
    No categories
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  36. Annette C. Baier & Michael Luntley (1995). Moral Sentiments, and the Difference They Make. Aristotelian Society Supplementary Volume 69:15 - 45.
    No categories
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  37. Annette Baier (1994). Moral Prejudices: Essays on Ethics. Harvard University Press.
    David Hume's essay Of Moral Prejudices offers a spirited defense of "all the most endearing sentiments of the hearts, all the most useful biases and instincts, ...
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  38. Annette C. Baier (1994). Hume's System. [REVIEW] Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 54 (2):475-479.
  39. Annette C. Baier (1994). How To Get To Know One's Own Mind: Some Simple Ways. In John O'Leary-Hawthorne & Michaelis Michael (eds.), Philosophy in Mind. Kluwer. 65--82.
    No categories
    Direct download  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  40. Annette C. Baier (1994). Response to My Critics. Hume Studies 20 (2):211-218.
  41. James Allan, Robert F. Anderson, Shane Andre, Pall S. Ardal, R. F. Atkinson, Luigi Bagolini, Annette Baier, Stephen Barker, Marcia Baron & Donald L. M. Baxter (1993). An Index of Hume Studies: 1975-1993. Hume Studies 19 (2):327-364.
    Direct download  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  42. A. Baier (1993). Hume: The Reflective Women’s Epistemologist? In L. Antony (ed.), A Mind of One's Own. Westview.
    Translate to English
    |
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  43. Annette Baier (1993). Trust and Distrust of Moral Theorists. In Earl R. Winkler & Jerrold R. Coombs (eds.), Applied Ethics: A Reader. Blackwell.
    No categories
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  44. Annette C. Baier (1993). Book Reviews. [REVIEW] Mind 102 (408):668-674.
    No categories
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  45. Annette C. Baier (1993). David Hume, Spinozist. Hume Studies 19 (2):237-252.
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  46. Annette C. Baier (1993). How Can Individualists Share Responsibility? Political Theory 21 (2):228-248.
  47. Annette C. Baier (1993). Moralism and Cruelty: Reflections on Hume and Kant. Ethics 103 (3):436-457.
    Both a morality, like Kant's, which relies on wrongdoers' guilt feelings and expectation of punishment, as enforcement for its requirements, and one which, like Hume's, relies on the feelings of shame and expectation of their fellows' contempt which will be felt by those showing lack of the moral virtues, seem to merit the charge that morality is an intrinsically cruel institution. The prospects for a gentle non-punitive morality are explored, and Hume's views found more promising, for this purpose, than Kant's.
    Direct download (6 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  48. John D. Sommer, Ed Casey, Mary C. Rawlinson, Eva Kittay, Michael A. Simon, Patrick Grim, Clyde Lee Miller, Rita Nolan, Marshall Spector, Don Ihde, Peter Williams, Anthony Weston, Donn Welton, Dick Howard, David A. Dilworth, Tom Foster Digby 3d, Anthony Appiah, David Auerbach, Annette Baier, Seyla Benhabib, Akeel Bilgrami, Richard Boyd, Robert Brandon, Joshua Cohen, Arnold Davidson, Owen Flanagan, Nancy Fraser, Marcia Lind, Alexander Nehamas, Linda Nicholson, Adrian Piper, Lynne Tirrell, Lawrence Blum, Lawrence Foster, Roma Farion, Mitchel Silver, Jenifer Radden, Jack Bayne, Robert K. Shope, Jane Roland Martin, Arthur B. Millman, Beebe Nelson, Robert Rosenfeld, Janet Farrell-Smith, David E. Flesche, Daniel E. Anderson, J. R. Brown, F. Cunningham, D. Goldstick, I. Hacking, C. Normore, A. Ripstein, W. Sumner, Alison M. Jaggar, Harry Deutsch, Irving Stein, John Hund, George Englebretsen, Fred Strohm, D. L. Ouren, P. Bilimoria, F. B. D. & Nora Nevin (1993). Letters to the Editor. Proceedings and Addresses of the American Philosophical Association 66 (5):97 - 112.
    No categories
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  49. A. Baier (1992). David Hume. In Becker (ed.), Encyclopedia of Ethics.
    Translate to English
    |
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  50. Annette C. Baier (1992). Artificial Virtues and the Equally Sensible Non-Knaves. Hume Studies 18 (2):429-439.
    Direct download (7 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  51. Annette C. Baier (1992). Artificial Virtues and the Equally Sensible Non-Knaves: A Response to Gauthier. Hume Studies 18 (2):429-439.
    Direct download (5 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  52. Annette C. Baier (1992). Appropriate Ways of Crying Over Milk We Choose to Spill:Plural and Conflicting Values. Michael Stocker. Ethics 102 (2):357-.
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  53. Annette C. Baier (1992). Review: Appropriate Ways of Crying Over Milk We Choose to Spill. [REVIEW] Ethics 102 (2):357 - 367.
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  54. Annette C. Baier (1992). Trusting People. Philosophical Perspectives 6:137-153.
    No categories
    Direct download (4 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  55. Annette Baier (1991). A Naturalist View of Persons. Proceedings and Addresses of the American Philosophical Association 65 (3):5 - 17.
    No categories
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  56. Annette Baier (1991). A Progress of Sentiments: Reflections on Hume's Treatise. Harvard University Press.
  57. Annette Baier (1991). MacIntrye on Hume. Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 51 (1):159 - 163.
  58. A. Baier (1990). Hume on Women's Complexion. In Jones (ed.), The Science of Man in the Scottish Enlightenment.
    Translate to English
    |
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  59. A. Baier (1990). Real Humean Causes. In Kulstad & Cover (eds.), Central Themes in Early Modem Philosophy. Hackett.
    Translate to English
    |
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  60. Annette C. Baier (1990). Natural Virtues, Natural Vices. Social Philosophy and Policy 8 (01):24-.
  61. Annette C. Baier (1990). What Emotions Are About. Philosophical Perspectives 4:1-29.
    Direct download (6 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  62. Eva Feder Kittay, Carol Gilligan, Annette C. Baier, Michael Stocker, Christina H. Sommers, Kathryn Pyne Addelson, Virginia Held, Thomas E. Hill Jr, Seyla Benhabib, George Sher, Marilyn Friedman, Jonathan Adler, Sara Ruddick, Mary Fainsod, David D. Laitin, Lizbeth Hasse & Sandra Harding (1989). Women and Moral Theory. Rowman & Littlefield Publishers.
    No categories
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  63. Annette Baier (1988). Hume's Account of Social Artifice-its Origins and Originality. Ethics 98 (4):757-778.
  64. Annette C. Baier (1988). Philosophy and the Human Sciences, Philosophical Papers Vol.2. Canadian Journal of Philosophy 18 (3):589-594.
    No categories
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  65. Annette C. Baier (1988). Pilgrim's Progress. [REVIEW] Canadian Journal of Philosophy 18 (2):315-330.
    No categories
    Direct download (4 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  66. Annette C. Baier (1988). Review: Pilgrim's Progress. [REVIEW] Canadian Journal of Philosophy 18 (2):315 - 330.
    No categories
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  67. A. Baier (1987). Hume, The Women's Moral Theorist. In Kittay & Meyers (eds.), Women and Moral Theor7. Rowman and Littlefield.
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  68. Annette C. Baier (1987). Commodious Living. Synthese 72 (2):157 - 185.
    No categories
    Direct download (6 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  69. Annette C. Baier (1987). Getting in Touch with Our Own Feelings. Topoi 6 (September):89-97.
    Direct download (7 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  70. A. C. Baier (1986). Books in Review. Political Theory 14 (1):156-159.
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  71. Annette Baier (1986). Extending the Limits of Moral Theory. Journal of Philosophy 83 (10):538-545.
    No categories
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  72. Annette Baier (1986). Trust and Antitrust. Ethics 96 (2):231-260.
    Direct download (5 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  73. Annette Baier (1986). The Ambiguous Limits of Desire. In J. Marks (ed.), The Ways of Desire. Precedent. 39--61.
    No categories
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  74. Don Locke & Annette Baier (1986). Postures of the Mind: Essays on Mind and Morals. Philosophical Quarterly 36 (145):571.
    No categories
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  75. Annette Baier (1985). Explaining the Actions of the Explainers. Erkenntnis 22 (1-3):155 - 173.
    No categories
    Direct download (5 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  76. Annette C. Baier (1985). Hume's Philosophy of Common Life. [REVIEW] Philosophical Books 26 (3):145-149.
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  77. Annette C. Baier (1985). What Do Women Want in a Moral Theory? Noûs 19 (1):53-63.
    No categories
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  78. Annette C. Baier (1984). Reasons and Persons. Philosophical Books 25 (4):220-224.
    No categories
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  79. Annette C. Baier (1984). Some Thoughts on How We Moral Philosophers Live Now. The Monist 67 (4):490-497.
    No categories
    Direct download (5 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  80. Annette Baier (1982). Book Review:Hume's Philosophy of Mind. John Bricke; The High Road to Pyrrhonism. Richard H. Popkin, Richard A. Watson, James E. Force; McGill Hume Studies. David Fate Norton, Nicholas Capaldi, Wade L. Robison. [REVIEW] Ethics 92 (2):346-.
  81. Annette Baier (1982). Hume's Account of Our Absurd Passions. Journal of Philosophy 79 (11):643-651.
  82. Annette C. Baier (1982). Caring About Caring: A Reply to Frankfurt. Synthese 53 (2):273 - 290.
  83. Daniel Dennett, Parfit, Regan, Richard Rorty, Alasdair MacIntyre, Harry Frankfurt, Annette Baier & Jim Doyle (1982). Summary of Discussion. Synthese 53 (2):251 - 256.
    No categories
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  84. Annette Baier (1981). Frankena and Hume on Points of View. The Monist 64 (3):342-358.
  85. Annette C. Baier (1981). Cartesian Persons. Philosophia 10 (3-4):169-188.
    No categories
    Direct download (6 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  86. Annette Baier (1980). Helping Hume to "Compleat the Union". Philosophy and Phenomenological Research 41 (1/2):167-186.
  87. Annette Baier (1980). Master Passions. In Amelia Oksenberg Rorty (ed.), Explaining Emotions. University of California Press.
    Translate to English
    |
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  88. Annette Baier (1980). Secular Faith. Canadian Journal of Philosophy 10 (1):131 - 148.
    No categories
    Direct download (4 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  89. Annette C. Baier (1980). Hume on Resentment. Hume Studies 6 (2):133-149.
  90. Annette Baier (1979). Mind and Change of Mind. Midwest Studies in Philosophy 4 (1):157-176.
    No categories
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  91. Annette Baier (1979). Action Theory. Grazer Philosophische Studien 9:185-198.
    No categories
    Direct download (5 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  92. Annette Baier (1979). Hume on Heaps and Bundles. American Philosophical Quarterly 16 (4):285 - 295.
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  93. Annette C. Baier (1979). Good Men's Women. Hume Studies 5 (1):1-19.
  94. Annette Baier (1978). Hume's Analysis of Pride. Journal of Philosophy 75 (1):27-40.
  95. Annette C. Baier (1977). The Intentionality of Intentions. Review of Metaphysics 30 (3):389 - 414.
    Direct download (4 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  96. Annette Baier (1976). Realizing What's What. Philosophical Quarterly 26 (105):328-337.
    No categories
    Direct download (5 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  97. Annette C. Baier (1976). Mixing Memory and Desire. American Philosophical Quarterly 13 (July):213-20.
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  98. Annette C. Baier (1972). Ways and Means. Canadian Journal of Philosophy 1 (3):275 - 293.
    No categories
    Direct download (2 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  99. Annette Baier (1971). The Search for Basic Actions. American Philosophical Quarterly 8 (2):161 - 170.
    No categories
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
  100. Annette C. Baier (1970). Act and Intent. Journal of Philosophy 67 (19):648-658.
    Direct download (3 more)  
     
    My bibliography  
     
    Export citation  
Is this list right?